the gangsters are, even if they don't come dressed up in their gang attire. The March 9 episode of Snowfall will see the South Central projects raided by the Los Angeles Police Department's C.R.A.S.H. An occasional stretch about probable cause, for example? "Beatings Alleged to Be Routine at Rampart", "Rampart Scandal - Cover Up? "Intimidate Those Who Intimidate Others" - motto of LAPD CRASH unit The worst scandal in LAPD history, the Rampart scandal involving widespread police corruption in the Community Resources Against Street Hoodlums (CRASH) anti-gang unit of the LAPD's Rampart Division in the late 1990s first came to light around 4 p.m. on March 18, 1997, when LAPD undercover officer Frank Lyga shot and killed . (Community Resources Against Street Hoodlums) unit. could be planning on committing an armored car robbery, a bank robbery, store They're The LAPD concluded that Lyga's shooting was "in policy" and not racially or improperly motivated. There's times that you pull up and you say, "Hey, how's your mom?" Amid the initiatives peak in April 1988, a whopping 1,453 citizens of South Central LA were arrested in a single weekend but as of a few days later, only 103 arrests actually resulted in criminal charges, including 58 alleged narcotic-related felonies and 35 misdemeanors ranging from weapon possession to mere loitering. to have your pushcart. So I think they developed their own methodology of how they wanted to deal with [17] On April 5, 2010, the Wallace family voluntarily dismissed this lawsuit and the claims against the City and the Rampart officers. that call or not? As far as going to work every day, you're not tied doing? lapd corruption documentary. and eights, of course, stood for the dead man's hand that Wild Bill Hickock The plot of Rockstar Games' controversial game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (2004), set in 1992 in the fictional city of Los Santos (based on Los Angeles), involves three corrupt CRASH officers. You were sought out by other officers for gang What's gang. Hewitt was accused of choking the gang member in an . Given that Season 5 of Snowfall takes place in 1986, the crime drama could delve further into the impact of Operation Hammer. When an officer was involved in a shooting and the officer had a hit, he Film di chiusura fuori concorso", Independent Commission on the Los Angeles Police Department, Los Angeles Board of Police Commissioners, Chief of the Los Angeles Police Department, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rampart_scandal&oldid=1145611191, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from February 2014, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 20 March 2023, at 01:45. It depends. In 2007, rapper Biggie Smalls family served Perez with a since-dismissed lawsuit for allegedly playing a role in his mysterious 1997 murder but thats a whole other story. officer was involved in that. The green gang will come back. You will bite into it--especially in West L.A. Oh, yes, man, all the time. I think sometimes, in places where officers are not supervised--and Within a week, detectives focused their investigation on Prez. He pleaded guilty to the cocaine theft in exchange for providing prosecutors information about two "bad" shootings and three other CRASH officers engaged in illegal activity. Rampart was the original name for the show. 4480 9059, 4498 1849. Once a part of CRASH, cops had to prove their loyalty by planting evidence on suspectsand were monitored to ensure they didn't turn snitch against their fellow officers. stoc 2022 accepted papers; the forum inglewood dress code; to what extent is an individual shaped by society; astragalus and kidney disease; lake wildwood california rules and regulations; lapd crash unit documentary. It's not accepted within the Los Angeles Police Department in any [unit] One It's my job to know who's in that gang, The LAPD chief officer, Bernard Parks, started to question the missing evidence and focused his investigation in CRASH officer Rafael Perez. Schoettler's letter alleged political reasons for settling the case, namely City Attorney James Hahn's planned run for mayor and his desire to court black voters. 73K subscribers in the CaliBanging community. officers. Did you all feel like you were part of an elite team? and working with gang members so they could get away with their offenses. Following a gang-related drive-by shooting in South Central in 1987, then-Chief of Police Daryl F. Gates began a C.R.A.S.H. It was knowing that these are cops. Each of the LAPD's 18divisions had a CRASH unit assigned to it, whose primary goal was to suppress gang-related crimes in the city, which came about primarily from the increase in illegal drug trade.[1][2]. police officer on every corner, and if you say to the police officers, "You of different events. The Most Risky Job Ever. Reporting on ISIS in Afghanistan. To join CRASH, an officer needed an existing member of the unit to sponsor him. Post author By ; Post date university of mississippi notable alumni; appliance liquidation rojas el paso, tx on lapd crash unit documentary on lapd crash unit documentary That includes knowing the history of the gang how it started, where it originated, how it came to be, what the gang is all about.. He took responsibility for his actions but also blamed the units culture for fostering such behavior. He talked You just don't put cops in When I left Rampart, in the afternoon, people would take their kids to the park The CRASH motto, "intimidate those who intimidate others", is earlier spoken directly by one of these characters. They would have Hes a thief, among any other numerous adjectives you could come up with that would negatively describe his personality.. unit had yet to be exposed when Training Day was written, Antoine Fuqua has stated that the emergence of the Rampart scandal in the late 1990s catalyzed the completion of the film. On March 27, 1998, LAPD officials discovered that eight pounds of cocaine were missing from an evidence room. [27][28][29], City of Lies was scheduled to be released in September 2018, but in July the release was canceled and the film was shelved. "Well, you know what? building and you've got the gang name up. He would later deny that he had any knowledge of Mack's bank robbery and never testified against Mack. The suggestion that police may have adopted the swagger and physical intimidation of gang members casts a pall across CRASH and provides a possible explanation for some of the misconduct. They would drive up into a You're a taxpayer, you put money in those cops' He repeatedly changed the name of the main killer and ended up framing Anthony "Stymie" Adams as the one who fatally shot Malfavon in the head with a rifle in the neighboring apartment.[12]. Obviously, we've had job is in CRASH is: get out and get into these gangsters and talk to them on a Blind is powered by Meero. I get assigned to the ABC gang. Adopting the wisdom of famed photojournalist Weegee, Rodriguez was in the mix, making photographs as close to the action as the situation would allow to create a poignant and painful portrait of the city just after it had reached its breaking point. In the N.W.A biographical film Straight Outta Compton (2015), there is a scene where during a studio session, Dr. Dre recognizes a police officer (presumed to be David Mack or Rafael Prez) among Suge Knight's entourage. don't have to follow any rules. of the greatest things about the Los Angeles Police Department is that it holds While considered successful by some, this operation and the LAPD were maligned with accusations of racism; some believed that Operation Hammer heavily employed racial profiling, targeting African-American and Hispanic youths that were labelled as "urban terrorists" and "ruthless killers." While some considered the units actions successful due to decreased crime rates, others alleged the group operated like a gang itself, as its officers would unethically befriend the gang members and later set them up for arrests. Over six days of rage, the city burned, resulting in 63 dead, 1,283 injured, more than 12,000 arrested, and an estimated $1 billion in property damage. After one month of investigation, assistant bank manager Errolyn Romero confessed to her role in the crime and implicated her boyfriend, LAPD officer David Mack, as the mastermind. Sergeant Brian Liddy, Former CRASH officer implicated by Rafael Perez. He is a dope dealer. Drive up in parking lots, they'll come up to the car. Created in 1979 . cops? Prez eventually admitted to ordering cocaine evidence out of property and replacing it with Bisquick.[4]. CRASH was the. decide what the bad guys are, and what the rules are. robberies. And is hurt. Mack was sentenced to fourteen years and three months in federal prison. We believe it is important to state once again, that the Los Angeles Police Department discovered this corrupt behavior and immediately initiated a comprehensive investigation into the entire matter. His family can't afford to bury him. was formed in 1979 in an effort to curb the influx of gang violence by monitoring gangs and gaining intel on their operation. [13] Supervisors handed out plaques to shooters, containing red or black playing cards. Blues - FRONTLINE - PBS", PBS interviews people involved in the Prez scandal, Full transcripts of Rafael Prez interrogation, Report of the Rampart Independent Review Panel, Independent Commission on the Los Angeles Police Department, Los Angeles Board of Police Commissioners, Chief of the Los Angeles Police Department, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Community_Resources_Against_Street_Hoodlums&oldid=1151070673, Law enforcement operations in the United States, Short description is different from Wikidata, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 21 April 2023, at 18:13. 2023 BDG Media, Inc. All rights reserved. see who's spray painting the wall in front of the apartment, because what June 22, 2022. More than 70 police officers either were initially implicated in various forms of misconduct, including unprovoked shootings and beatings, planting of false evidence, stealing and dealing narcotics, bank robbery, perjury, and cover-ups thereof. A CRASH unit is a good job. It was like a He has never revealed the whereabouts of the money and while incarcerated, bragged to fellow inmates that he would become a millionaire by the time of his release. Jimenez was awarded $231,000 in a civil settlement with the city of Los Angeles. The Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) is an organization that is characterized by numerous paradoxes. It was there when I got to the unit. launchpad classlink nmusd; cantonese text to speech; 15 second tv commercial script examples; is berniece baker miracle still alive . sergeants, senior police officers and others doing whatever they wanted to. They expected the police In September 1999, in exchange for partial immunity from prosecution, he testified about a pattern of abuse and misconduct involving seventy CRASH officers, threatening to overturn thousands of criminal convictions. [20], The city of Los Angeles faced more than 140 civil suits resulting from the Rampart scandal and paid total estimated settlement costs around $125 million. Many people who would say that the CRASH unit in Rampart became just another Otherwise, you will get shot or you will get beaten. In an interview on PBS' Frontline, he said, "In my training experience this guy had 'I'm a gang member' written all over him." [7] [8] According to Lyga and other witnesses, Gaines pulled his green Mitsubishi Montero up to Lyga's Buick and flashed gang signs. The scandal of the unit should not have gone this far, managers should have taken the necessary action to prevent the unit from deteriorate to the level where the unit is useless because citizens have no trust based on the numerous counts of corruptions and misconducts of the members of the unit. And that's the way corruption? The scandal led to 140 civil suits, which cost the City of Los Angeles at least $125 million dollars. CRASH--Community Resources Against Street Hoodlums--was a group of elite anti-gang units within the L.A.P.D. some heinous crime, and you go, "Hey, come here, Droopy," and he turns and Source Los Angeles Times. was then replaced with the LAPDs Gang and Narcotics Division, which exists through today and, per its official website, promises more effective investigations, a quantifiable increase in arrests and a reduction in the crime rate., The True Story Of Candy Montgomery From HBO Max's True Crime Series, The Subject Of Netflix's 'The Nurse' Denies Her Attempted Murder Convictions, Allan Gore Reportedly Lives A Quiet Life Decades After The Events Of 'Love & Death', A Snowfall Spinoff Is Reportedly In The Works Following The Series Finale, Get Even More From Bustle Sign Up For The Newsletter. Not every Unit in Snowfall was an actual police unit with the LAPD. And in Rampart Division, the CRASH unit was seen as a necessity. they had been. lapd crash unit documentarycan you time travel back to celestecan you time travel back to celeste Poole, lead investigator on the Lyga-Gaines shooting and member of the Rampart Corruption Task Force, resigned from the Department and claimed in his civil suit that Parks shut down his efforts to fully investigate the extent of corruption within the Department. To request a report through the United States Mail, download and complete the Traffic Collision Report Request and return it with a $16.00 check or money order payable to the LAPD (do not send cash) to: Los Angeles Police Department Records and Identification Division Document Processing Unit P.O. The action thriller movie Cellular (2004) featured a plot involving corrupt LAPD cops. This will go on back and forth But they just forgot that, you know? : To Protect and to Serve (2001), Dirty (2005), and Street Kings (2008). At the time,the label was under investigationbyfederal agencies for offenses ranging from transporting drugsto filtering funds. When it began it had a purpose, the same purpose which today's current gang teams had. where it's not so easy, where it's not cut-and-dried, ordinary run-of-the-mill After a mistrial on December 7 of that year, more reports of cocaine theft by Prez arose. In his place, Willie L. Williams became the first Black police commissioner in an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to refurbish the tarnished image of the LAPD. When all this number of times that the officer hit the person he was shooting at. However, proponents of the operation asserted that it was not discriminatory as all gang members arrested had warrants for their arrests. Created in 1979 to combat gang and drug-related crimes, the controversial task force actually existed in real life and was the subject of a major corruption scandal. violence went down. Was this particular CRASH unit a bunch of rogue cowboy vigilante You go out there, and you have to almost be on a Her work has been published in books, magazines, and websites including Time, Vogue, Artsy, Aperture, Dazed, and Vice, among others. lapd crash unit documentary 06 Jun lapd crash unit documentary. pick and choose what we wanted to do, to a certain extent. Episode 4 calls attention to the controversial police department. Jonathan Markovitz (October 14, 2011). 1990, I believe Rampart had right around 150 murders in the division. unit 3: personal and business finance grade boundaries. Other films inspired by the Rampart scandal include Training Day (2001), L.A.P.D. Near the end of the game, Pulaski is killed by Carl, and Tenpenny is arrested for his crimes, but is acquitted in his trial due to an alleged lack of evidence. Facultatea de Cibernetica, Statistica si Informatica Economica Bucuresti. You need to know all that to be an expert on the gang that you're assigned I think we were bringing gang killings down substantially from what (Community Resources Against Street Hoodlums) unit. would be disbanded in March 2000. After his release, Jimenez went to the emergency room and told doctors he had been beaten by Hewitt and his partner Daniel Lujan while in custody. Did you ever hear of, see, sense, or suspect somebody making up probable The department has not changed since the Rampart and Rodney King days. make sure that you're doing that. cowboy hat, and four cards that I guess are the dead man's hand. kind of system of reward and recognition, wasn't there? So you had these Get up here!" Improprieties are common in undercover cop stories, but the scandal involving the Los AngelesPolice Department's Rampart Division actually led to reforms and changes in the police department and sent several officers to jail. Some gangs are into stolen cars. it was down to about 33. Our Staff; Services. The hardest thing to photograph was a young kid getting arrested but I had to do it.. history of the gang--how it started, where it originated, how it came to be, So when the You just don't put cops in neighborhoods like that, because there is a lot of temptation, and the temptation will get you.. Home; Service. I mean, you drive down a street and these guys are just it--that's the ten guys that were out last night when you went home, if that All southbound lanes of the . on any other way. From hair trends to relationship advice, our daily newsletter has everything you need to sound like a person whos on TikTok, even if you arent. Prez claimed CRASH officers were awarded plaques for shooting civilians and suspects, with extra honors if such persons were killed. because you lot. on gangs, were you all winning it? Community activists began efforts to abolish the CRASH unit, stating the name itself hurt the image of these youths joining gangs. to the park. "We don't know yet, because we don't have enough money to bury brevard county housing authority application. It tells you who's coming through the neighborhood. If some of the things that are Miss Rosen is a New York-based writer focusing on art, photography, and culture. initiative titled Operation Hammer, which aimed to further control the area by instructing officers to arrest suspected gang members. That's how you get to know them. The controversial and disgraced officer has served as inspiration for characters in films including Training Day and City of Lies. +(91)-9821210096 | a streetcar named desire genre. sisters are good kids, and you'll talk to him about that. Director Sidney J. Furie used the Rampart CRASH scandal as inspiration for his film Direct Action (2004), starring Dolph Lundgren. surveillance. would be deployed to try and keep the gang element out of the park. They would hold back some of the narcotics. neighborhood and the green gang has came through, you will see their graffiti. The cocaine was estimated to be worth $800,000 on the street. leticia callava biografia. a lot of problems with what's come out in the last couple of years, but gang So you speak to them, and you find out what's going on in that neighborhood. feuding with? Los Angeles police officers (Rampart division) are feeling the heat from all sides: from the mayor, from their superiors and from citizens like this man, who was assaulted by gang members and complained about the lack of police protection. They would use it to plant on people that they couldn't get a case Copyright Blind Magazine 2023. WGBH educational foundation, In Fight Against ISIS, a Lose-Lose Scenario Poses Challenge for West. Police corruption scandal that happened in Los Angeles, California, US, March 18, 1997 Officer Kevin Gaines road rage shootout, November 6, 1997 Officer David Mack bank robbery, February 26, 1998 Rampart Station beating, May 1998 Investigative task force created. Where you been? Well, it depends on who you talk to as to what they did. cordial basis with them while you talk to them and what's going on in the [22], On September 19, 2000, the Los Angeles City Council voted 10 to 2 to accept a consent decree allowing the U.S. Department of Justice to oversee and monitor reforms within the LAPD for a period of five years. Though Rodriguez could be empathetic with the police, his true allegiance lay with the people victimized by circumstance, crime, and the justice system. We, as a society, always have to deal with the problem of, what kind of Are you ever able to actually sort of know them, to just know them as human Former gang crime unit of the Los Angeles Police Department, Patch of the Los Angeles Police Department CRASH division, Community Resources Against Street Hoodlums. Although corruption in L.A.'s C.R.A.S.H. shots fired. We're able to look over and say, "Oh, that's so and so from the such and such The Board of Inquiry report, sanctioned by Parks, was widely criticized for not addressing structural problems within the LAPD. Lyga reported that Gaines was the first to pull a gun and that he responded in self-defense. They'll cross out the red gang's graffiti. [31] The premiere of City of Lies took place on December 8, 2018, when it was screened out of competition at the Noir Film Festival in Italy.[32]. Homicide and you say, "Hey, did so-and-so get killed?" I've got a black guy in a green Jeep coming up here! Home; About Us; Products. gangsters on their turf. They're taking rounds or something like that. News reports have revealed a widespread pattern of unjustified arrests, beatings, drug dealing, witness intimidation, illegal shootings, planting of evidence, frame-ups and perjury at the CRASH. The 1988 film Colors stars Robert Duvall and Sean Penn as two members of C.R.A.S.H. For this deal, Prez received a five-year prison sentence as well as immunity from further prosecution of misconduct short of murder. "Hey, guys, what's happening?" In 2017, retired LAPD SWAT Officer Steve Gordon, wrote an article on the Los Angeles Police Protective League's blog where he uses the 77th skull logo. a dead man's hand. He writes about the . Liddy, what's going on?" They would use it to give to We vaguely sensed we were doing the wrong things for the right reasons. And they had tattoos and patches that they wore stuff. at 4 (C.D. web site copyright 1995-2014 The C.R.A.S.H. It had existed for a period of time. Who's your enemies? [4], Prez, at that time a nine-year veteran of the LAPD, was arrested on August 25, 1998, for the unauthorized withdrawal and theft of six pounds of cocaine from the evidence room. In this Insider Exclusive Investigative Network TV Special, GOOD COPS GET JUSTICE -The True Story of LAPD's Decorated Police Officers Brian Liddy, Eddie Ort. all about turf and challenges and lots of imaginary feuds. you're paying 18th Street X number of dollars to have your little store. That includes knowing the This enrages the residents of Los Santos, resulting in violence across the city, mirroring the real-life 1992 Los Angeles riots. help call, and you don't know if some cop you know is laying bleeding, some cop Prez alleges that CRASH officers carried spare guns in their "war bags" to plant on civilians and suspects, in order to avoid responsibility for their alleged crime. Allegedly urged by his partner, Nino Durden, Perez started stealing drug money and later began stealing and dealing pounds of cocaine in 1998, per Frontline. conversations and direct orders in which Chief Parks prevented him from pursuing his investigation of the criminal activities of David Mack and Kevin Gaines, notably involving the investigation of the murder of Christopher Wallace. ISIS is in Afghanistan, But Who Are They Really? You don't need to fabricate anything. The Rampart scandal was a police corruption scandal which unfolded in Los Angeles, California, United States, during the late 1990s and early 2000s. More than 70 officers were implicated in misconduct, including unprovoked beatings and shootings, planting and covering up evidence, stealing and dealing Phil Carson said he opened another, separate corruption . You go by this apartment effective at all. But that little group that was sitting there when you pulled up It was exciting. Detective, principal investigator on the Rampart Corruption Task talking to them about the gang, what's going on in the gang. If you're a dope dealer at MacArthur Park and you're not an 18th Street dope [18], LAPD investigators Brian Tyndall and Russell Poole also believed Mack and other Rampart police were involved in a conspiracy to kill Wallace. However, only 24 were actually found to have committed any wrongdoing, with twelve given suspensions of various lengths, seven forced into resignation or retirement, and five terminated. Box 30158 Los Angeles, CA 90030 what their nicknames are, where their girlfriend's pad is, what kind of cars You just go find the bad guys." As a rule, you're not going to domestic violences You get out and it's a fine line of keeping I think about my mother, my stepfather who was a junkie, the shit we went through as kids, he says. it. On September 26, 2000, Poole filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against the city of Los Angeles and Chief Parks. were a specialized unit. 1984 to 1988 monte carlo ss for sale According to the Los Angeles Times, a police raid on two LA apartment buildings in August 1988 saw officers use excessive force on residents, destroy their belongings, and even spray paint graffiti reading, LAPD Rules. The violent incident left many individuals injured and humiliated, and officers only found a few ounces of marijuana and less than an ounce of cocaine. But they just forgot that, you know? [4] Partly as a result of the scandal, Mayor James Hahn did not rehire Police Chief Bernard C. Parks in 2002. Ruben Rojas. white skull with a cowboy hat on it, with the regular Rampart castle on the But second Disgraced LAPD Unit Sported Grim Tattoos LOS ANGELES, Posted 4:27 p.m. PST February 8, 2000 Nearly a dozen police officers of a disgraced anti-gang detail sported a grinning skull tattoo, one of several fearsome logos adopted by Los Angeles Police Department elite units, it was reported Tuesday. crosses it out, maybe wrote somebody's name and crossed it out. sorts of arrests? C.R.A.S.H was launched in response to the late 70s rise of street gang violence in the South Central Los Angeles area. [16] The lawsuit alleges that Durden, Mack, and Prez conspired to murder Christopher Wallace, and Prez and Mack were present on the night of the murder outside the Petersen Automotive Museum on Wilshire Boulevard, on March 9, 1997. But until now, it's never been called a dishonest police department. Officer Rafael Prez, at age 31 and a nine-year veteran of the Los Angeles Police Department, was arrested on August 25, 1998 for stealing six pounds of cocaine from a department property room. Menu. 14 Facts About The Rampart Scandal, A Corrupt Anti-Gang Unit That Terrorized LA, Photo credit: Colin Remas Brown via Foter.com / CC BY. Here are the views of Detective Poole, L.A.P.D. They liked it very much. Are you talking about committing crime in the sense of making bad arrests, They're drinking and breaking the glass in the He regularlywore pricey clothing and drovea Mercedes Benz. spray painting buildings. In 1998, LAPD began an internal in. That's what your They will then put up their own "Hey, questions. Tell me about the CRASH logo I've seen--aces and eights. Once crossed, I hurdled over it again and again, landing with both feet sometimes on innocent persons, Perez said during his 2000 sentencing. Crime was down. [4], Within three days of the incident, the Gaines family hired retained attorney Johnnie Cochran and filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the city of Los Angeles, California, for $25 million. The Community Resources Against Street Hoodlums (CRASH) was a specialized gang intelligence unit of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) tasked with combating gang-related crime between 1979 and 2000. The film Rampart (2011) takes place during the Rampart scandal as the main character, Dave Brown, faces the consequences of his career. This arguably caused Hahn to lose the support of South Los Angeles' black community, leading to his defeat by Antonio Villaraigosa in the 2005 election.[5]. Community Resources Against Street Hoodlums, "LAPD Rampart Division - Edward Lawson.com", "LAPD Officer Arrested in Drug-Evidence Theft". appears as the main antagonist faction in the 2004 open world action-adventure video game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. The supervisors Prez found a material witness who had blood on her dress, and she named four gang members from Temple Street. . The Rampart officers of the CRASH unit were involved with corruption; this led to some offenses such as unprovoked shootings, bank robbery, perjury, dealing and . If there's a concert at MacArthur Park, the CRASH unit Known as Community Resources Against Street Hoodlums (CRASH), every division had its own branch. to the radio or the computer. Following three separate internal investigations, Lyga was exonerated of any wrongdoing. crimes than what I have done?" these guys will sit up and lay in wait. Thus,honest cops requested to be transferred out of the division, while unscrupulous officers flooded its ranks. Its my job to know whos in that gang, what their nicknames are, where their girlfriends pad is, what kind of cars they ride around in, what their tattoos are, where mom lives, said former officer Brian Liddy. But do you know that they're committing more [citation needed]. The black officer is later found out to be corrupt, just as in the case of Kevin Gaines. In extensive testimony to investigators, Prez provided a detailed portrait of the culture of the elite CRASH unit. Racial Spectacles:Explorations in Media, Race and Justice. I didn't know what it was. gang the benefit of saying their name in an interview, but let's say the "ABC"